Young girl blows dandelion after making wish

What is an Indigo Child?

“Children who are defined as Indigo may exhibit unusual behaviors or possess special abilities, including particular sensitivities to their environment, and more intense emotional experiences than other children.” ~ Athena Drewes

The number of parents reporting that their children have had psychic experiences is increasing at a rapid pace.

These gifted children and adolescents are sometimes referred to as Indigo Kids or Crystal Children.

In this audio podcast, Kala Ambrose interviews Dr. Athena Drewes, a child psychologist and parapsychologist who researches children and ESP abilities.

Beginning at 05:15 of the podcast, Athena and Kala address issues specifically related to the “Indigo” traits, behaviors, and challenges these children, and their parents. They also offer guidance and coping skills based on research and personal psychic experiences. If you prefer reading to listening, you can jump to the “Indigo Children & the Sixth Sense” section in the text transcript by clicking here.

Jump to the full audio podcast and learn how scientific research is weighing in on Indigo children and others with psi abilities. Read the full transcript starting here.

Return to Page Index ↑

Explore Your Spirit with Kala

Kala Ambrose

Dr. Athena Drewes discusses Indigo Children with Kala Ambrose, host of “Explore Your Spirit with Kala”.

Kala is a spiritual teacher, motivational speaker, host of Explore Your Spirit with Kala Show and practical intuitive coach and guide, Kala’s teachings are described as empowering and inspiring. She has authored 5 books, including “The Awakened Psychic”.

Kala was kind enough to invite Athena on her show for a “spirited exchange”1  about Indigo & Crystal Kids and children with psychic abilities.

Learn all about Kala by visiting her website at Explore Your Spirit ».

Return to Page Index ↑

PSI Children (Audio Podcast)

Podcast Length: 29min 50sec

Source: Kala Radio2

Audio Player

Skip ahead to 05:15 for discussion about Indigo Children.

Return to Page Index ↑

Interview with Athena

Dr. Athena Drewes

00:00 (min:sec)3
Narrator: Welcome to Explore Your Spirit with Kala. Journey with Kala as she speaks with researches, artists, teachers, and healers, delving into topics of ancient mysteries, metaphysical explorations, and new discoveries from science and spiritual arenas. Explore Your Spirit with Kala can be found online at Explore Your Spirit dot com. Visit the website for more podcasts, articles, metaphysical news, and upcoming events.

Kala: Welcome to Explore Your Spirit. I’m your host Kala. Today we’re speaking with Dr. Athena Drewes, a licensed child psychologist, parapsychologist, and consultant to the Rhine Research Center and the Parapsychology Foundation on children’s psychic experiences. Welcome, Dr. Drewes to the show!

Athena: Thank you very much.

Return to Page Index ↑

Children with ESP

Kala: Pleasure to have you on here. You work specifically with children from what I understand researching children who seem to have ESP abilities. How long have you been doing this?

Athena: I’ve been involved in the field of parapsychology over twenty years and have been seeing children on and off during that period.

Kala: What led you to that line of work? Did you have experiences yourself? How were you drawn to it?

Return to Page Index ↑


Athena: I did have a personal experience at the age of 10. I had a precognitive dream about a car accident that my mother was involved in and the dream did come true down to the exact details. That led me on a course of trying to find out how dreams come true and how to help children with those experiences.

Kala: In your work do you find that most children that have these abilities are born with those abilities or is it a higher number of children who discover those abilities later on?

Athena: Well, I personally believe that we’re all born with psychic ability to some degree or another and the children come into this world with those abilities and some of them report them very early on. I hear about them through their parents. Other children have had them and not are not bothered by them until they become an adolescent. I may hear about it later on but most individuals I believe, children especially, enter this world with the ability.

Kala: In your type of work do you find that that happens with most children? Are they dismissed as having imaginary playmates and overactive imaginations?

Athena: Well, I think the parents that are contacting Rhine Research Center and the Parapsychology Foundation are more open to the experiences and wanting really to help their child deal with them and not to respond in a way that’s negative. But in talking with a lot of adults who recount having had experiences as a child, including myself, they’ve encountered a lot of negative feedback from parents; made to feel somehow that maybe they caused the event, they’re a witch, dealing with peers, especially adolescents, are sensitive to their peers reacting negatively to them, wanting them to perform or write them. So there’s a mixed reaction that most children get.

Kala: From the mystic side we were taught that most children are open to this until the age of seven and that scientifically they have noticed a correlation with the soft spot on the skull, that it seems to fully form and close in children at the age of seven and on the mystic side what we say is that when that closes that veil closes a little bit for some people and they don’t see it as easily and also by that time they’ve been conditioned not to look for things like that or to engage in fanciful things but instead to deal with the realities of what’s in front of them. Have you found anything similar like that in your research?

Athena: Well, the research has tried to see if children are more psychic before age seven, or does it indeed decline over the years. And it’s not really conclusive. There’s some research that says “yes” and some that says “no”. Some anecdotal material it seems like many of the children, although as you’re saying when they enter school, I think they’re more sensitized to the fact that they shouldn’t be talking about this seriously. So they might go underground and stay for a while or may develop into a different ability. They may find they’re precognitive, or knowing about the future, and then at a later date maybe it shifts into a different ability. But I think that there is some variability over the age.

Return to Page Index ↑

Indigo Children & the Sixth Sense

Kala: Do you see psychic ability as just another sense like the sixth sense? Is it something we’re all supposed to have and that we’re moving into that area of developing that sense?

Athena: Well, I think it is more of a sixth sense. I think it’s a natural part of our make up. I don’t see it as a weird or unusual ability. I think it’s a gift or ability like you would be able to play the piano. Because we can all do that. Not that all of us want to do it and some of us are born very gifted in that area. Some of us have to work very hard at it. Some of us will never be good at playing the piano. Psychic ability is like that. I think it exists in all of us. Some of us are just much more gifted in that area. It just seems like we’re getting a lot more children reporting their experiences now whether this is a result of possible Indigo Children coming into the world and foretelling of some future event in which we may need the psychic abilities. It’s hard to say at this point.

Kala: Give us your definition of an Indigo Child. What makes a child an Indigo?

Athena: Well, Doreen Virtue has written several books on this and seems to find it more as children coming in with kind of a blue aura and having the ability to tune into various psychic phenomena. Sort of a harbinger of a warrior type of group that’s coming into kind of clear the way for more psychic experiences for psychic children to change society and change the world. A lot of the children that are defined as Indigo may have keener sensitivity to their environment. Maybe they’re at a more emotional state than other children. And research has not proven one way or the other if is a unique aspect or a special population or not but it’s certainly an intriguing area right now.

Kala: Touching on that work that Doreen Virtue wrote that many children are being misdiagnosed as being ADHD when instead they’re really Indigo Children and so I guess have a different energy about them and need more stimulation in some ways and less in others. Have you done any studies or seen any studies on that correlation?

Athena: I haven’t done any studies with that. As a psychologist I’m always cautious about labeling and diagnosing children in any category. I wouldn’t want a parent to avoid getting help if their child might have the need to get some counseling or guidance in certain areas or learning disabilities or attention deficit. I wouldn’t want every parent to just assume their child is an Indigo child or assume that they have attention deficit disorder either. It’s a delicate teasing out and looking at, and certainly working with each child as a unique individual is important in trying to meet their needs.

Return to Page Index ↑

Crystal Children & Autism

Kala: Absolutely. And even if they were an Indigo Child it wouldn’t mean that they might also need help adjusting to that coming back in this lifetime and could use services like the ones that you give to help them as they make that transition. I have also heard now about Crystal children and they’re saying that’s the next evolution coming that started in the late ’90s. Have you heard that term?

Athena: I have heard that and Doreen Virtue has written about the Crystal Children and the Rainbow Children. A lot of the Crystal Children that she writes about have autism or are on the autistic spectrum and has a lot more telepathic abilities according to the writings and research hasn’t proven that to be one way or the other. I would again caution parents, caution them not to assume just because they may be on the autism spectrum that that means automatically they’re Crystal Childs are or the other way around.

Kala: Recently you were on an A&E show “Psychic Children”. Was that a good experience? Did it feature psychic children in a positive light?

Athena: Yes I was very pleased with the way CBS productions put this story together. I am very cautious about being on shows that are going to exploit the children that I test or with children in general. I thought they gave a very fair, very open, and honest look at psychic children and I was very pleased to be asked.

Kala: We’re going to take a quick break and when we return we’ll be back speaking more with Dr Athena Drewes about psychic children.

Narrator: We’ll be right back with more of Explore Your Spirit with Kala.

Narrator: Would you like to know ahead of time what new shows are coming to Explore Your Spirit? If so, visit the website at Explore Your Spirit dot com and sign up for Soul Speak, our free newsletter and talk show guide. You’ll receive a monthly newsletter with reviews of new shows along with a guide of upcoming events, workshops, news, and other information. Sign up today at Explore Your Spirit dot com.

Return to Page Index ↑

Rhine Research Center

Kala: Hi! This is Kala, host of Explore Your Spirit. You’re listening to a special interview for the Rhine Research Center. The Rhine Research Center is a scientific institute dedicated to the study of consciousness, with a rich history and collection of research on the Psi field, beginning with J.B. and Louisa Rhine and their work at Duke University from 1927 onward. Located in Durham, North Carolina, the Rhine’s hold public presentations on a wide variety of Psi and paranormal subjects including ghosts, psychic abilities, ESP, after death events, collective dreams, remote viewing, energy fields and healing, psychokinesis, and much, much more. Explore Your Spirit is pleased to offer this series of interviews with researchers and scientists who work in the Psi fields and participate in programs with the Rhine Research Center. These interviews will be archived in the future on the Rhine Research Center website with additional audio material including historical footage, new conferences, and lectures on a wide variety of subjects. Become a member of the Rhine Research Center today and do your part to help research grow in the parapsychological field. For more information about the Rhine Research Center, and become a member of this incredible scientific research organization, visit the Rhine Research Center online at www dot Rhine dot org. That’s R H I N E dot org. »

Kala: Hi! This is Kala and you’re listening to the song Re-Align the Lines by Hillbilly Prophet. Download this song and others at Reality dash Entertainment dot com.

Music & Lyrics: ♪ ♬ Re-Align the Lines… Re-Align the Lines, yeah… 10,000 faces, oh yeah… 10,000 people, oh yeah… 10,000 reasons, oh yeah, yeah… they got it deep inside… Re-Align the Lines… ♫

Narrator: We’re back, with more of Explore Your Spirit with Kala.

Return to Page Index ↑

Zener Cards & ESP Testing

Kala: We’re back from our break speaking more with Dr. Athena Drewes about psychic children. Dr. Drewes, what type of research do you do with children exactly?

Athena: Well, I often have children come to meet, their parents, and test their psychic experiences. I will use a variety of tests to validate their abilities in order to determine what is going on with them. There’s the Zener cards which were developed by Dr. J B Rhine of the Rhine Research Center for testing adults and can be used with children. There are five symbols. A square, star, circle, cross, and wavy lines. There are 5 of each for a total of 25. And you can use them in a variety of ways. If the child can guess what cards are turned over, what card their parent might be looking at, or myself. Or even if I’m not looking at the card, if they can just guess it from the card would test a variety of abilities to see four or five, or greater. Five is a chance. Seven or nine would certainly say something more than chance operating. You can do the same thing using M&Ms which I’ll use with younger children, five different colors and five of each color. A child will guess what color is coming out or I’m holding in my hand and the same statistics apply for that.

Kala: In your research have you been able to determine if there’s different types of psychics and different types of abilities? I know for me I’ll pick up on certain things stronger than others. Some people are more drawn to psychometry, some people have it more in their dreams. Some people it’s everywhere they go. Do you find that in children or do you find that they’re open to all of it? Or that they seem to have one gift or another?

Athena: I think it’s the same as you just described. Some children have more ability to know what’s going to happen next, precognitive ability. Be it dreams or just intuition. Some children have a combination of abilities that can pick it up. Telepathically, as well as clairvoyantly, knowing from the object itself. Some children are much more gifted in seeing spirits, or more of a medium ability. It can vary and it can change over time, too. The child may add abilities or develop other abilities as they get older.

Return to Page Index ↑

Psychic Research & Help

Kala: What advice would you give to parents listening who have perhaps wondered if their child has some psychic abilities? Or their child was talking to them about things or they’ve noticed something, say, like your dream, where you had a dream about your parents and then something happened and perhaps a parent has found that that their child has said something and then it’s come true? What can they do to help them especially if they don’t seem to have this ability themselves?

“The Gift” by Sally Rhine Feather and Michael Schmicker. Available at Amazon »

Athena: I always advise parents to listen to their child, not to pass judgment, not to be overly excited about it or negative about it. To listen to their child’s events and experiences, to help them record them, to keep a journal. And then you can look for patterns and to see whether or not a child’s abilities lie in one area or another. I encourage parents to read “The Gift” written by Sally Rhine Feather, a very good book explaining psychic abilities in all of us and research that’s been done so they can reach out to their children. You can make a game of some of the abilities in terms of doing guessing tests on your own to help the child be more aware of their abilities. When they have it, how it feels different from other times. Generally, just really treating a child as an average, everyday child and not looking for them to perform. Not looking to put them on the spot. And helping them see that this is a gift or an ability just as many other people have abilities in art, music, athletics and to give them a rounded, normal life.

Kala: From the spiritual side here, there’s a lot of talk about this being the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, new things coming, new abilities for everyone. From your work and what you’ve seen, do you think that things are increasing as well? Is this a time perhaps where you’re seeing more children that are coming to this ability and do you think it’s far greater reason?

Athena: Well, personally I think that’s true. There’s no scientific evidence for it, but I am seeing more children coming forward, more parents coming forward. The media is coming forward. It’s a very important area right now for shows and television movies communicating that this is something that we all have. Whether it’s heading into something rosey or how it will end, we don’t know where it’s leading us. But certainly a lot more people are here in this time with an openness to this ability or showing this psychic ability, so perhaps there is something coming in the future that we will need it for.

Kala: Dr. Drewes, do you continue to have psychic ability and has it grown for you throughout the years and gotten stronger?

Athena: For myself I have found it increases in the variety of experiences that I have, it’s not just precognitive at this point. I think it has flowed throughout my life. There been points where it doesn’t seem to be there or I’m not using it. Maybe I’m not concentrating or tapping into it. There are other times when it’s much more there in my everyday life. It’s always helped me out, got me to avoid dangerous situations. And to this day I hope I still have different psychic experiences.

Return to Page Index ↑

Sometimes it’s NOT Psychic

Kala: In your work with the children, have there been times when parents thought their children had experiences but they really weren’t and it was the opposite? And I would imagine it’s very difficult to have to explain to a parent that it’s something else.

Athena: I have had some parents contact me and wonder whether their child is hearing voices as a psychic phenomenon or if they’re a medium on some level versus is it, maybe, a more severe emotional or mental state that they’re approaching. And they’re not sure whether they should go for medication or see someone in the health field. That’s difficult to tease out. I just do consultation. I don’t do treatment with the family. So, it’s difficult to guide them sometimes when I’m not seeing the child directly and it’s long distance.

Kala: That makes sense. Definitely, you would need long term study or time with them to see what’s really going on that way.

Athena: Sometimes it can be that it is something that it isn’t psychic. But, at least to help the parent be open to the possibility.

Return to Page Index ↑

How to be Psychic

Kala: Where is your research going next? What projects are you working on?

Athena: Well, at this point in time I’m hoping to write a book to help parents. So I’m gathering up information and recording various psychic experiences that children have had. Continuing with the research that I’m doing. And just being open to requests and information that comes through the Rhine Research Center and the Parapsychology Foundation.

Kala: I look forward to that day when being psychic is like playing the piano, that people just find that interesting but not extra special in that way. Where people recognize that for what it is. Because I do agree with you, I think everyone has that bit of ability in them and a lot of us are just conditioned to turn it off. And when people talk about their gut feeling, or I should have gone with my first thought or, you know, I had a feeling about this. I think they’re tapping into psychic ability the same when they walk into a room and they can feel the energy in the room they can feel the group they walk into is happy or upset or something’s wrong. Or, when they’re walking down a street they can feel energy good or bad. We instinctively were given those gifts I believe, all of us. And some of us come back with them a little stronger and it’s just an easier receptor on our radio, let’s say, that’s turned on a little higher. But all of us over time and practice can develop those to the extent that we would like to go.

Athena: I agree 100%.

Kala: Well, I think your work with children is especially important because children are so much easier to open up and to learn. I think we’ve proven that with foreign languages that children will pick up that so much easier than those of us if we tried today to learn a new language. The same with this, if they’re able to work with that and be open to it and go with that level it would just be so much easier in the future with everything. And it sounds like from a lot of what we’re hearing with Indigo children and and all of these things that they’re coming through this way and it’s time for a change in this world where people will be that way. And perhaps it was in the past too where sometimes that, maybe not recorded, but where it was at that time where children were taught as well which would be wonderful.

Athena: It would be a great world.

Return to Page Index ↑

Psychic Protection

Kala: Are there any side effects to this with children that you see? Do they seem fazed by it at all? I mean, I know I can speak for my standpoint of my experiences and most of the time it was a positive thing but I had some unpleasant circumstances. I went to bed one night asking my parents please to bring our dog inside. I could feel that our dog was going to get taken that night and they thought I was just being upset or wanted the dog inside. And they said no, and the next morning when I woke up I knew the dog was gone I ran out, our gate had been broken, and someone had taken the dog. And that’s when they begin to take me seriously, that I was having stronger things than they realized. So, not all of them were good for me. But, how do you find with children, are most of their experiences positive or do they have some tough times as well?

Athena: Well, children do have tough times because, as you relate your experience, there are other types of experiences like that many children have. And they have to deal with information or news that they don’t want to know about like the loss of someone or a pet that’s very meaningful to them. They also have difficulty dealing with who to tell. They tell their best friend or a teacher and then they’re made fun of, or considered crazy or a witch, or someone that has to come forward and prove it. That has a negative consequence emotionally, especially if you’re approaching adolescence and want to be part of a peer group and be accepted. And also, for children that have the ability to see spirits, or ghosts, or entities that have passed on, it can be very frightening for them. Especially if they can’t turn off that ability, or they can’t make it go away, or they don’t quite know how to do psychic protection around themselves to be able to deal with it, those can be negative aspects.

Kala: I had an experience similar to what you describe in high school. I had a dream one night that one of my good friend’s mother was going to be in a car accident the next day. And I saw the car sliding on the road, saw what happened, and that she would break some bones and have some injuries. And I called my friend that morning begging her please have your mom stay home. And I was popular in high school and, but in a very non-metaphysical way, just very, you know, wanting to be just a normal girl and do all the fun things you do in high school. And so this was out of the blue to call my friend who had never heard me talk about anything like this. She thought I was crazy and dismissed me, and her mother went to work and exactly what I described happened about an hour later. And when my friend called me back and told me, I thought she would say something like ‘I wish I had listened to you’ or ‘I’m sorry about that’. But instead, she was more like ‘what’s wrong with you’?. How did you know that? What did you do? Like I was somehow involved with it. And that’s very difficult, you know, as a teenager to have someone think that way. And for me it caused me to really not talk about it at all with friends or anyone until I got older. Because you don’t want people to see you that way or to think that way about you. It’s very difficult to explain to people that aren’t experiencing something similar, I guess, and can be very difficult.

Athena: Absolutely. It can create a lot of guilt, which it did to myself, thinking I caused the car accident that I knew about with my parent. That somehow magically you make it happen. So it can have very strong imprint.

Return to Page Index ↑

Psychic Training

Kala: What do you say to children that are in adolescence and dealing with that? What do you recommend they do when they see things like that about their friends or family?

Athena: Well, I try to encourage them to talk to their parent especially if the parent is open to the experience. Often such abilities run in families so there may be someone in the family that has psychic abilities they can go to and talk to. I recommend that they read books. I tell them very honestly that not everybody understands it, they can be frightened of it. You have to be selective. Sometimes you can’t always talk about it. Practice psychic protection, being able to protect themselves from other spirits. Turn off all of the psychic noise that they may be getting. So training them can be very helpful.

Kala: I agree, I think that’s very important. I have a school here where I teach abilities like that for people that are interested in the mysteries, or the deeper mysteries as we call them, and that’s the first thing I teach is how to have psychic self-defense or soft psychic protection. Because when you are out there trying to do those things or if you’re seeing spirits, you don’t always know who you’re talking to and they may even identify themselves as something that they’re not. And they may just be spheres that you may not want around you all the time. So it’s important to have that protection around you before you venture out, just like anything, just like a sport. You wouldn’t go out in a sport without the proper gear so it’s good to know.

Athena: Absolutely.

Kala: Dr. Drewes, it’s been a pleasure having you on the show today and thank you so much for sharing your information and your work that you do with psychic children. And we’re glad that there are people out there in the world like you that are reaching out and helping children as they unfold and have their gifts to share with the world and thank you for doing what you do.

Athena: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure speaking with you.

Narrator: Explore Your Spirit is on the web. Visit us at Explore Your Spirit dot com. Explore Your Spirit ».

Return to Page Index ↑


    1. Just a little parapsychology humor 🙂 . 
    2. Podcast originally published on Kala Radio on Jan 17, 2008 ». Reshared on Perceptive Children Network with express permission from Kala Ambrose. 
    3. This is the audio timestamp in minutes & seconds. For example, 01:09 indicates the associated text can be listened to beginning at 1 minute and 9 seconds into the audio podcast. Clicking on the timestamp link will force the audio to skip to, or begin playing at, the specified min:sec.